I have already completely debunked most of the hawkish arguments on attacking Iran:
Far from plunging the middle east into the throes of war, an Iranian nuclear weapon would stabilise the region under the shadow of mutually-assured destruction — the same force that stabilised relations between the Soviet Union and America. A middle east totally dominated by a nuclear-armed Israel ensures that Israel can drag its heels in reaching a lasting peace agreement with the Muslims. If Iran gets the bomb, they would finally come to the negotiating table as equals.
The big difference, though is that with Iraq there was no threat that any “liberal” interventionism would spill over into a wider regional war.
Of course, that hasn’t stopped the slavering “liberal” hawks from dreaming up more ill-conceived military interventions.
From Matthew Koenig of the CFR:
Skeptics of military action fail to appreciate the true danger that a nuclear-armed Iran would pose to U.S. interests in the Middle East and beyond. And their grim forecasts assume that the cure would be worse than the disease — that is, that the consequences of a U.S. assault on Iran would be as bad as or worse than those of Iran achieving its nuclear ambitions. But that is a faulty assumption. The truth is that a military strike intended to destroy Iran’s nuclear program, if managed carefully, could spare the region and the world a very real threat and dramatically improve the long-term national security of the United States.
The truth is that Iran (and more explicitly a strong and united Eurasia) is only a threat to America if America chooses to continue the absurd and destructive path of a world-dominating petrodollar superpower, dependent on foreign oil and resources, and with a foreign policy designed to (essentially) extort these things from the rest of the world.
The nature of such a foreign policy is inherently aggressive. Let’s be honest — who is threatening who?
Close the bases, bring the troops home, invest successfully in energy independence and global diplomacy, and trade and share technology and ideas with the world, and we in the West would have the national security we crave. Continue on the path of the overstretched hyper-power and we — the people of the West, not just our leaders — will end up with our faces in the dirt.
azizonomics 
Clearly you are an America-hater and terrorist supporter. There’s a cell in an undisclosed location waiting for you.
Sincerely,
The US Government.
The great irony is that I am the one advocating the strongest national security…
The war hawks are peddling national insecurity — more dependency on oil, more debt and an ever-overstretched military.
I think we anti-war folk need to take off the CND badge, take off the tie-dyed t-shirts and recognise that the only way to sell peace is to make the establishment realise that only peace and a foreign policy of non-aggression will make for real national security.
National security is clearly not the goal. For the neocons, war is the focus of their Keynesian economics (military spending). Not to mention the contributions from their friends in the weapons development, aerospace, and other assorted industries (oil exploration and development for example).
Their major focus is to own the world…. they haven’t had any oversight so far… they falsely believe they can pull it off.. Their plan is steal all the money, which they have, although they are still stealing non existing $$ they are simply writing up fake contracts… steal all the nations worldwide resources, which they have.. next is complete annhilation of the masses… they are very foolish fools.
I agree. I am a Hippy at heart, with a suit and hair cut to keep in the mainstream. People judge a book by its cover. It is the reality.
OWS failed because the hippies were hijacked by druggies and drop outs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ex5Nh06toM
Do you think the establishment actually believes its own rhetoric? I wonder. For example, Bachman and Santorum have recently claimed they are absolutely positive that a nuclear Iran would nuke Israel and then the U.S. Could they really believe something so absurd? Just on the face of it, any nuclear attack on Israel would be the end of Iran. Their fall-back claim is that the Mullahs are so crazy they would do it no matter the costs. Of course the leaders of Iran and their families live very well. I doubt they would commit national suicide and virtually wipe out the Persian race. Also, how could they spread Islam if they were nothing but a smoldering pit in the sand? Ludicrous. So, do they actually believe this rhetoric? Are they shills for the military-industrial complex or just using rhetoric to gain the support of the “USA USA USA” chanting crowd?
they really believe something so absurd?’ They know how this story ends Richard.. it is not absurd …. we will soon see… the war is brewing, almost to the boiling point. I won’t go into detail, but it is all over the internet for anyone to check out.
This is the strongest argument we have for pursuing a foreign policy of peace and liberty.
Great article Aziz and completely true… if anyone really believes that amerika is the only country, [besides their evil twin, israhell], that is ALLOWED to make bombs that create havoc the world over is brainwashed… wayyyyyyy too many white freemason illuminati bullies think they are a superior race, killing anyone who disagrees with them… I’m not sure if hawks posting as believing his statement signed the us govt… but I, for one, am certainly NOT afraid what this evil government is threatening to do to the citizens of this country, AND worldwide. Gods’ power has ALWAYS superceded anything evil, He has His ways and He will do what HE wants to do when the time comes. Anyone who believes that anyone other than this govt. are the terrorists, are simply close minded to truth. Threats and bullys never have intimidated me, and others are waking up to say to liars.. just shut the f^%k up… U R busted The following article is another good read… Keep writing the great articles.. Aziz
http://www.rense.com/general95/esca.htm
There are actually many terrorist organizations not named the U.S.A. in this world, believe it or not.
Nim is right. I agree with a lot of what Aziz is saying, particularly about military interventionism and stirring the pot. But it is not true that America is all bad, and the others are all good. We simply shouldn’t look at the world in terms of black and white. There are a lot of real terrorists and bad guys out there who would eat us for breakfast if we didn’t keep up our guard.
Of course, the picture shows that we are not “keeping up our guard” but instead acting very aggressively. I agree with Aziz’s views about diversifying out of oil and foreign goods, and investing in alternative energy. But screaming “America and Israel are terrorists”, and all this conspiracy stuff about the Illuminati is not constructive. It just alienates people.
I am going to double back on myself a little here. I don’t have any problem with the United States, or with Israel. What I have a problem with is the neoconservative foreign policy. America for the last two hundred years has been the freest nation in the world. It is only in the last twenty or at worst fifty years that she has tarnished her reputation. I support America having a strong national defence, and I believe that terrorism is a real threat, even if much of it is blowback for foreign policy. Of course, the policies I advocate to fight terrorism are a change in foreign policy, and a new governmental attitude of peace and civil liberty.
Spiritwoman, do you not think that Rick is correct when he says that your rhetoric is alienating? How can we possibly convince the powers that be to adopt better policies (which will ultimately benefit them as well as us) if our stance toward them is that they are “devil worshippers” or “Illuminati” or anything else? I don’t want to alienate anyone. I would happily work with Cheney, Bush and Rumsfeld if they listened to my arguments and were committed to adopting a better foreign policy and preserving civil liberties.
(Of course that scenario is very hypothetical, as there is no forthcoming evidence that any of these people are anything but big-time neocons).
I agree Aziz. Spiritwoman, you have to be careful about branding people as the Illuminati etc Readers might discredit us as intelligent rational people. I saw it with the OWS crowd. They lost all credibilty.
The key is dressing well (Conservative), and writing to your local Rep.
Then people worry about your opinion, as it is the main stream. Vote matter to these people
The problem is George Bush particiapated in Skull and Cross Boness clubs, and the uber elite (0.1%) all know each other. They all hung out at cool places during their summer breaks.
The internet has levelled the playing field and is allowing those who are not connected to the 0.1% to set the agenda and participate in politics. This is a strange and beautiful time.
yeah.. Buddy, do you mean classy places like bohemia grove??
http://www.mt.net/~watcher/bohemiangrove.html
or maybe one wants to hear about Cathy O’Brien and how these presidents brainwashed and misused her sexually….. just google… it’s all there in black and white and non erasable…. pathetic…
Yeah I have been to that gig, but it is so 2011. I mean the performers were pathetic, and don’t let me go on about the party games.
this may have been amusing if not for the fact that more than 100,000 skeletons of young children/babies were found not far from this evil place… so I don’t think this is funny at all… no… it is extremely evil. I cry for what was suffered for ‘their’ pleasure.. what about you??? Is this still amusing? and did you really have that much fun?????????????????????? You are not what you seem.
Iran is a threat to world peace. They said they will wipe Israel off the map. That map you posted in the article is an example of containment. Containment of a murderous, anti-gay, Islamo-fascist nation that sponsors terrorism against free people around the world.
At the same time, even I do not agree that direct war is the right approach. We should have taken out their regime the way we took out Gadaffi, by supporting an internal uprising.
Look, even if Iran built a bomb and gave it to Hezbollah to detonate over Haifa, do you honestly believe they would not be wiped off the map after that happened? Do you honestly believe Israel’s hundreds of nuclear weapons are not enough of a deterrent to prevent war? Do you honestly believe Iran are that stupid? Iran are building a bomb because they want diplomatic equality, and they want to ensure they are not Qaddafi’d off the map. The only threat of a war comes from America.
You’re an economist, not a soldier. I see the Islamo-Fascist mindset every day. They don’t care about reality. They care about their 77 virgins in the afterlife. Ahmadinejad would be happy to see Iran destroyed if it meant Israel was severely damaged.
Ahmadinejad knows Iran will not lose. So does america and israel. That is why they hate Iran so much… this is the ending to the story. The last war.
Ahmadinejad — the leader of a 3,000-year old Persian civilisation — would be happy to see 3,000 years of progress and culture obliterated in the name of possibly (and I say possibly because there is no guarantee whatever that any Iranian attack would be successful) killing some Jews?
He would be happy to see fifty million Iranians killed for that? That’s bullshit. This is about diplomatic equality, something America and Israel are unwilling to give up.
— Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (August 2011)
Does that sound like the words of a suicide bomber to you?
You’re not a diplomat, either. You expect Ahmadinejad to stand there in front of the world and declare his true intentions? He is just delaying until they have a nuclear bomb. Then, and only then, he will unleash hell. We have to stop him before he does that.
And this “intelligence” comes from where? The same people who told us that Saddam had WMD that could hit us in 45 minutes? American intervention in Eurasia has nothing to do with American security. It is about maintaining America’s status as petrodollar superpower, and keeping global trade and labour flowing. That’s it. Nothing else. And that policy is killing America. America is militarily overstretched and deeply indebted, and the more wars she fights the more oil and resources she needs, so she fights more wars to secure them. It’s a disaster. This is how Rome obliterated herself. Debt and imperialism.
Steven I respect your eyes on the ground. I have a mate who served in Afghanistan (Australian DF). Some are so irrational, it could be a problem if they get weapons. Look how they treat guns at a party (Shooting in the air is fun for them)
Ahmadinejad seems rational when speaking. I have seen his interviews. The wiping of the map was a mistranslation from Farsi to English. Read up on it.
But I agree he could be a good liar. However he wants to go nuclear, because it will offer some protection from bullies. For example, when do we go and hassle North Korea? Why have they not started a nuclear war?
‘I would happily work with Cheney, Bush and Rumsfeld’.. they are liars and truth is not in them. I don’t see them offering the peace pipe, they never will. They are war mongers. Plain and simple. If someone searches the internet and finds something that proves me wrong…. go for it. I gladly own up to being wrong.
Yes, Aziz… I very much believe that the words I speak can be alienating. Truth isn’t always what we want to believe. I have always searched for truth, and whatever it was I wanted to know. Why would I want to believe the lie that is passed around as gospel. I don’t know how anyone can believe this government is anything good.. it has military bases in almost every country on earth.. is this a symbolism of peace? The whole purpose of earth has been the bad guys against the good guys. Even old fashioned bollywood westerns persisted with this theme. Do we want the bad guys to win? I don’t… and they won’t. I don’t believe ANY religion is good. They are cults. Like countries..we are individuals,,,, not clones, or packs… it’s an individual search for the meaning of oneself being on earth… this whole story is entertwined with itself. I don’t believe in any country being ‘good’, but I believe Iran is as close as it gets. They are peaceful loving, never started a war with anyone.. fought against Iraq in the ’70’s because of americas intervening… these are facts, not some illusion. Just because my thoughts aren’t the popular things to write, I make no apologies. When this is all over with, I will stand before my Creator and know that I did the best I could do.. never cowered behind scoffers, scorners or bullies. I tell the truth.
But this is your site.. I have had my say, and if you want to sugar coat this very volatile subject.. I say go for it.. I will go onward and upward…
That’s outdated foreign policy, and it has only existed since WW2 — when it had a very good purpose, to counter the Soviet Union. The problem has only been since the 1990s, when the Soviet Union ceased to exist, and America decided it wanted to keep “containing” an empire that doesn’t exist anymore.
You’re brave and straightforward, though. I’ll give you that.
You are very kind aziz.. I wish you all the best…. I have searched for truth for almost 70 years.. I think I should know it by now… BUT TIME TELLS ALL THINGS…. and that time is coming… we’ll all be around to ‘see’…. since no one ever ‘died’…..:) Keep writing…
Use your real name like I do, as it keeps you in cyberspace for all eternity (Provided they don’t turn the switch off 🙂 )
One day some school kid will quote you.
I don’t fear ridicule, death, imprisonment or torture. That is why I don’t hide on the net. I can see how the right of free speech is being monitored, controlled.
My great grand mothers and fathers, on both sides, were burned alive in their homes by criminals in WW2 Ukraine ( I don’t know who did it) My Grandfather and Grandmother were in Camps and worked so hard, even today she can’t relax. So I count myself lucky that I was born to live in this world. I won’t stand for war mongering or criminal activity that impinges the happiness and stability of people. Bush should be hung for what he did to so many Iraqi people. He could have easily offered those killed people political asylum in the USA and Saddam’s regime would have collapsed for lack of people.
When bloggers become real people, then they can be followed as leaders of example.
Until then we are just hollow words, preaching to the converted.
Life is a precious gift. We should not waste it on cowardice.
Aziz… great quote..
My moniker has always been spiritwoman.. it states who I am and it makes the ones who know who I am, uncomfortable.. it is my mission on earth.. one I take seriously… I know you, Buddy, you have a great heart, you have great compassion, and you know why you are here… you KNOW things.. ok… ‘they’ already know my ‘name’. Joyce is my earth name.
Joyce, your parents were very happy. You must have been loved. You are blessed.
Me I am named after Buddy Holly. The Holly records played as a kid, and the family boogie bring back happy times.
And having a name which in modern times means friend, breaks down many barriers, cross culturally etc.
I am a friend of all nations, and I can’t stand bullys who control them. If you never back down, physically or mentally, you can defeat all enemies.
Buddy, my friend.. you have no idea how much I do consider you to be my friend. You must be in your mid ’50’s…yes? I, too, stand up to bullies.. I always have, but I had this fear inside me nonetheless.. but the older I get, and the more I do it, has made me extremely brave and fearless.. even though you know I am old, considering my years, but no one is stronger spiritually, mentally, or for that matter physically. I keep my house and garden, which is 1/4 acre, more beautiful than any around me.. my home looks like it is loved. And it is. In the spring when the flowers are laughing their way into blooms, people stop their cars and just stare. I do it for the love of God, and His care for me.
I consider myself to be an orphan. There was a woman who dropped me in the cotton fields of Idalou Texas, but the way my older half sister described her when she met her was: ‘I knew fear when I met her’. My father was no better. I had 8 siblings when the state of CA. took us away from these pediphiles and child destroyers.. I was 5.. I was surragate mother to the 3 younger than I. We were in and out of foster places {I refuse to call them that were just as bad until I was 18. Then I married a socipath. It was 25 years before I finally got away from him. He was so evil I learned to fight satan living with him. I told him that a few years ago.. the last time I talked to him… he laughed and said he didn’t doubt it. No one on earth was as inquisitive as I was.. or so it seemed. So.. I went straight to God. He is my best and only true friend.. that I can count on for anything.. He gives me hard times to become strong, and easy times to show me how great He is. He alone gave me understanding about everything. He is all the family I need. I am now a widow.. my 2nd husband died of agent orange cancers in 1999.. it was before I had ‘my gift’. My son was 19 when he was in a horrific car crash..in 1988.. my daughter chose to be like satan…. I am now free from her…..none of my siblings think like me.. most are just concerned with money. I have been poor and I have been rich.. and the way I like it best is having just enough to not want to steal, and not too much to take my time away from my God. So….. one day, we will meet and it will be a wonderful day. You will be like you are sometimes when you read my posts.. you will hardly believe it… but in the end… you will… take care my ‘friend’. Keep writing.. I like to hear your thoughts.
And yes.. I am VERY blessed and loved… 🙂
Correction: {I refuse to call them homes} I was writing this when I got a phone call.. and forgot to finish it…….
email me off site, so I can discuss.
birojek at hotmail dot com
I did, and I look forward to talking to you… in private.
Some additional info on this fellow, Aziz:
http://www.matthewkroenig.com/
“From July 2010 to July 2011, he was a Special Advisor in the Office of the Secretary of Defense, responsible for the development and implementation of Middle East defense policy and strategy. Previously, in 2005, he worked as a strategist in the Office of the Secretary of Defense where he authored the first-ever, U.S. government strategy for deterring terrorist networks.”
He is a big time insider. This might well be an expression of where the Pentagon stands right now.
In a word, yes — General Dempsey is more of a hawk than Mullen was, and certainly more of a hawk than Admiral Fallon, who acted as a roadblock to Bush and Cheney, and who I greatly admired.
From the Jewish Chronicle:
That does not sound like a strategy of caution or diplomacy. We should be freaked out.
Miscalculation. That is a given!
“A middle east totally dominated by a nuclear-armed Israel ensures that Israel can drag its heels in reaching a lasting peace agreement with the Muslims.”
Does Israel have the obligation to establish peace with every Muslim in the world?
If not, then which ones?
Further, to my knowledge Israel wants peace with its neighbors, and the last few mini-wars that were fought were done to create a buffer between invaders from Lebanon. The major wars (1948, 1956, 1967, 1982) were either started by Israel’s neighbors or were preemptive attacks by Israel (whose very last option was preemptive attack).
It seems that Israel very much wants peace with its neighbors.
So what, exactly, will Iran’s acquisition of a nuclear bomb do to achieve peace? Make Israel want it REALLY badly?
OH PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ!! Maybe you should live in Gaza and see how much they want peace… maybe we spell it different… oh yeah… I keep forgetting…. war is peace and peace is war… now I get it.
They need more skin in the game. Right now nobody can hurt Israel — they can sit behind their separation barrier and delay and delay as the settlements gradually eat what is left of the West Bank. There are no middle eastern nations who can come to the table as an equal. That has been Netanyahu’s gameplan for a long time — the gradual destruction of Palestine by stealth.
Mutually assured destruction will assure that everyone in the region has a real incentive to reach a just and permanent agreement instead of procrastinating.
I have hung out with many Israeli ex soldiers on holiday (India, Australia) These guys are the real Israelis, you know tanned middle eastern skin (Not like the Russian Caucasian converts who control Israel)
They want peace. They are sick of it. They tell me that the hard core zealots have 5 or more children and sponge off welfare. He says they cause so much trouble!
Peace will come, when the Israelis have a civil war, like they did in Roman times.
Yeh, if there’s one thing Americans don’t understand about the middle east it is that the greatest divisions are actually between Jews.
It’s because there are so many lies it causes great confusion… people are funny about lies…. lots of them choose to believe the BIGGEST ones…even if you show them truth after truth…. it doesn’t matter… they choose lies.. Helen Thomas is my greatest hero.. she got fired because she spoke the truth… the original ‘jews’ were nazis… I know a lady who was living in Palestine when the nazis started coming to steal their land.. she said they were dressed in nazi uniforms and were very bad men… and we know they were and still are..
Helen Thomas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQcQdWBqt14
My thoughts were she was secretly filmed, and this was devious (and reinforces stereotypes), because we all have professional comments, and private comment. She was a wealth of knowledge and she spoke the truth. It was her job to discover the truth for so long!
She was asked a question and she gave an honest answer.
The cameraman and photographer were in plain sight so she had to be aware of being recorded. I think she had a belly full of the lies and couldn’t help herself.. the truth sometimes has to ooooooozzzzeee out of the mouth..I chose not to comment on the remainder of the video, but will now. It is common knowledge there was no holocaust committed against jews. The horror was committed by those who say it was perpetrated against them..lies….. It is also known that the ‘jews’ name was invented by and for the state of israel to be invented to perpetuate the lies of the non holy bible.. but I will say it now, and not expound on it.. the truth is there for all who want it proven, and liars will always go for the lies.. so I’m tired of trying to ‘prove’ anything.. just wanted to make it clear that I was NOT advocating the rest of the video… in fact it makes me sick.
No the camera angle indicates a covert camera. Most camera men film straight on.
This was a set up.
the gradual destruction of Palestine by stealth. ‘
Absolutely right, the expansion of israel includes large chunks of Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iraq… yupper sir eeeeeee bob… the plan is laid… and this scheme dictates the war with Iran MUST be waged. Iran is definitely NOT in their plans. Too bad half the world already know what they are planning…. and too bad, it is going to fail. BIG time. All the prepping with China and Russia seems to be backfiring. Their ships are already in place for the showdown. They know for a fact they can’t beat 200 million soldiers. Especially since the money tree has dried up.
http://www.ahavat-israel.com/eretz/future.php
Futuristic Map Based on the Torah
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the Egyptian River as far as the great river, the Euphrates.”
Bereshit (Genesis) 15:18
This is what my Israeli mates talk about, the zealots have so many children and grow their political power. It is dangerous.
Buddy..don’t miss my point of putting the futuristic map of israel up.. I did it because of how they plan to steal more and more land, if they can get away with it.. by their own admission, israel was ‘created’ by Rockefeller..I absolutely agree that it is berechit…. the torah, bible, whatever books they call holy are written by evil men, based on the true word of God which is hidden in the Vatican basement behind locked and guarded doors… ‘they’ give the masses just enough truth to create confusion. Don’t think for a minute I believe one thing ‘they’ say. I choose always to search to the end to find the truth.
I will not take sides in this debate, but I will state what bothers me about the article – it’s the certainty that exudes from such phrases as “completely debunked”. These are sensitive issues, so perhaps a measure of doubt is warranted. I can see pro/cons for both sides; on the cons side: humans are definitely not rational robots and on occasion are actually provably quite mad (functionally and chronically mad). As for the idea that someone would not risk destroying the millennial culture of his own people, history shows that there are plenty who have tried just that (and luckily failed – but not far from achieving that); examples that come to mind: Hitler, Mao.
For examples where the madness can even become contagious: http://www.amazon.com/Mobs-Messiahs-Markets-Surviving-Spectacle/dp/0470112328 (though while leaders where usually chronically mad, the masses probably just had bouts of acute madness).
I don’t think there is any unwarranted arrogance to what I am (or Ron Paul is) saying. I’ve explained why the hawks’ fears are misplaced, and I’ve offered an alternative policy to create real national security.
I wouldn’t use such a strong term if I wasn’t willing to defend it. Let me put it this way: I can’t think of anything less geopolitically likely than Iran acquiring a nuclear weapon and initiating a first strike against Israel.
Your analogy to Mao and Hitler doesn’t fit. Their cultural revolutions were not aimed at destroying their own nation but were about radically transforming (and in their eyes) improving it. Is Ahmadinejad’s (not just Ahmadinejad but the entire religious and secular Iranian establishment’s) idea of “transformation” causing the deaths of millions of Iranians and turning Iran into a nuclear wasteland? Of course not. But that is completely inevitable with an Iranian first strike, and any military adviser worth their salt could tell you so.
There is a slightly bigger chance of Hizbollah or Hamas detonating a dirty bomb, but I don’t see any real reason why an Iranian nuclear program makes this more likely than the (very fragile) Pakistani one. Even if this did happen, Israel’s retaliation would be swift and brutal, and aimed at Tehran.
Ahmadinejad’s foreign policy is brinkmanship aimed at climbing up to the top diplomatic table. Given that Pakistan already has nuclear weapons, and is still trampled over diplomatically by America, I am not entirely certain how effective a strategy this will be in the long run, but whatever.
The dangerous thing for America is that in many respects Ahmadinejad is not bluffing. He knows how dependent America is on certain trade webs, & that’s why Iranian provocation is aimed at the Strait of Hormuz (trade artery). He knows America is massively indebted, and its military overstretched. I would draw an analogy with Osama bin Laden here — bin Laden’s goal was always to bankrupt America by drawing America into intractable wars against indefinite enemies. An expensive campaign against Iran will spell economic disaster for the real (gasoline-sensitive) economy. And of course, America is doubly unlikely to act if China and Russia make it clear that they will intervene.
Ahmadinejad is intelligent enough to adopt this foreign policy (Blocking the Straits of Homuz).
Like North Korea, he’ll extract concessions.
This is just a game for the elite.
However, the general public think Iran is dangerous, so I would not be surprised if a military strike is initiated. It would actually improve the Political capital of Obama to do it.
An example of what I meant: http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/millions-evangelical-christians-want-start-wwiii-speed-second-coming-and-atheist-neocons
– this is on the other side (religion) but we can be sure to expect similar things on their side. This is what I meant when I said that we should be careful about these things.
Thanks for the link. Nice summation of a very big problem.
Andrei, you didn’t address to your remark to anyone in particular, so I would like to say how I believe. ‘Religions’ are the opiate of the people. If we take that one step further, it would mean to me, religion is a ‘feel good myth’ that makes people more comfortable in what they believe. If we really want to know what GOD believes we ought to get down to the basics of the whole reason we are stuck here on earth, with evil. Why are good people so few and far between all the evil in this mix? In all my long years on earth, I have sought to find the real truth. What I couldn’t figure out, I asked God about. When I was in my early ’60’s, He began my ‘education’ about Heaven and earth. It’s ALL about Him. If we start when it all began, we will see it is a simple story of lucifers egotism. Much like the earths leaders, and also the majority of humans. People, the masses, tend to mimic the leaders.. the more corrupt leaders are, the more the people tend to be evil also. God decided to offset this majority with a small number of those who loved Him most, in Heaven. Therefore, those of us on earth, are the same as we were in Heaven, and will be again when the tribulation begins. Apocolypse is not the tribulation, as so many people are ‘taught’. The apocolypse is already in progress.. meaning: the revelation of great hidden truths. Spirituality is what counts to God. He knows who belongs to Him, and we know we belong to Him. Common sense tells us that there is ONE GOD, and Only One God…. He doesn’t need any help, from anyone. BUT.. and this is the kicker.. if He is to destroy satan, and his minions, those who willingly rebel against justice and truth, He depends upon us to fight in the spiritual world against these monsters. This is what all of us, who belong to HIM, do. It is the world we can’t see, but we all know it is a dark and evil world.. why do we know that??? Because ‘they’ hide the truth of GOD in that dark and evil world. God is light, transparent if you will. As He says over and over again in Isaiah, why won’t you repent? Is it because I haven’t raised my fist against you yet? And yes, they believe they are ‘getting away’ with all their dark plans. But the time is coming and Iran is the key… Iran is the nation God loves. And why wouldn’t HE? I won’t answer that, it’s very obvious.. almost the same reason He loves me so much. I try to explain His ways to people because He has spent an enormous amount of time explaining it all to me. He wants me to help those who want understanding, and to tell the rest, that the ‘truth’ of it all is OUT. I am a great irritant to them. So what.. if they can’t stand me, God loves me all the more. I am NOT afraid of evil. My strength lies in my trust and love for my God. As far as the 1000 years go,… let’s be reasonable… if you were God, and some lowly angel that YOU created to be beautiful caused your wife and sons murder, and caused chaos in YOUR playpen, would YOU have had a plan to let him ruin an entire planet? But it wasn’t you, it’s HIS plan, and He will cause it to go to fruition. NO ONE can stop it.. but I digress…. ‘they’ know this story, ‘THEY’ caused it. But God has already given them an ‘extension’.. on earth.. He is not going to give them another moment after all this chaos has been caused on earth also. If you do a search it is easy to find that the zionists have written this book FOR their own purpose.. most are lies.. be cautious with your heart and mind.. I am so used to knowing the truth, I hate evilness, and duplicity. However, when I write on these issues, those are the ones I stir up… TRUTH… a terrible thing to waste.. if you would like to communicate further with me, spiritwoman1234@yahoo is my addy. Time on earth, for humans… is coming to an end. He made hell in the center for that reason. They will never leave here. I KNOW who I am in Heaven and I WILL be going back to where I belong.. before Rev. 6 begins.
“Your analogy to Mao and Hitler doesn’t fit. Their cultural revolutions were not aimed at destroying their own nation but were about radically transforming (and in their eyes) improving it. ”
Exactly, I was only using a metaphor – but that’s what mad people get as a result of their actions. Ultimately, what I’m saying is that things are more complicated which means there are also many more solutions we can find. Advocating that Iran should get nuclear weapons sounds like that kind of idea that would add more fragility to a system. Perhaps UN could be involved, and perhaps Israel and US could also adjust their policies as well. I’m not taking anyone’s side, I’m merely saying that there are more sides to the story.
“I would draw an analogy with Osama bin Laden here — bin Laden’s goal was always to bankrupt America by drawing America into intractable wars against indefinite enemies”
That’s in hindsight – but as usual, things are much more complicated. He also wanted to overthrow the House of Saud and he was definitely a delusional fanatic to some extent.
Well this would be fine too. In fact, I’d probably prefer this to what I am talking about.
My “support” for an Iranian nuclear weapon is really a rhetorical trick: I am assuming my opponent’s worst case scenario and arguing from there. I do this quite a lot. Of course, as a state besieged by American bases, I can’t blame them for seeking one, especially after what has happened to Qadaffi (and by contrast, what never happened to Kim Jong-il).
In an ideal world I’d like to see a nuclear free planet. But this is not an ideal world. Taleb’s definition of fragility is mathematical — negative convexity. The key factor for me in negative convexity is instability and disparity that precipitates drastic and unpredictably-shaped change. We know that nuclear weapons have never been used in the context of mutually assured destruction. We know that during the short period without mutually assured destruction they were used. I don’t think it is unsafe to assume that MAD is a fantastic safety mechanism.
The problem with Iran becoming nuclear is that it actually increases the likelihood of a conventional war–it has nothing to do with the hawks in the USG. This is based on empirical evidence with several very good case studies to back it up, India and Pakistan being the greatest example. Most (not all) policy is based on mountains of empiricism; it is really whether or not one agrees with the policies that really matter. Neocon principles are based in valid empirical studies, namely the Democratic Peace Theory.
The West is a completely different animal from the rest of the world: we have expectations of fairness and equality that are pretty well met, for the most part. Anyone who does not think so should spend some time living (not visiting) the world outside of the West. Newfound appreciation of how lucky you are to have the parents you do is usually the case.
Year of the last conventional war between India and Pakistan: 1971 (there was a minor skirmish in 1999, but that hardly counts as a war)
Year India acquired nuclear weapons: 1974
I am glad I live in the West. I love America. I love Britain. But I actually believe our post-Soviet militarism, our neoconservatism, our self-appointed role of global policeman, and our love of massive debt, deficit spending, and cheap Chinese imports are endangering our democratic, moderate and just heritage.
The democratic rulers decide what needs to be done. They want war with Iran, they will get it. They will obviously ‘sell’ the war or invasion as the only rational alternative against a mad suicidal and religiously fanatical ‘enemy’. I would not expect anything less, this is the world we live in, sure via the Internet we might try to debunk the war makers, but we will be marginalised their powers of persuasion are able to reach millions and billions of people and alternative voices are drowned out. The real rulers are the money power, they get what they want, any country which wants to go down a different path, from the one the bankers have is not acceptable to the banker rulers, they will bring you down. Only one system is allowed to exist and consolidate its power globally all alternatives will be first demonized, ridiculed and attacked. Gadafi did not have a central bank, was not in debt, now Libiya has democracy a central bank and will no doubt be in huge debt….this is the only way for everyone.
Totally agree on all your points. It is whoever controls the mass media that wins.
Constant simple repetition of key points, becomes fact.
How wars are manufactured:
A condensed version
http://despair.com/propaganda.html
I find the “truther” versions of 9/11 harder to believe than I do the official story. The Bush administration was characterised by widespread incompetence and failure, not powerful, omniscient malevolence. Simply, I will not believe Bush and Cheney had a hand in it when they didn’t plant any WMD in Iraq to vindicate the Iraq war.
To me, 9/11 was blowback for US foreign policy, and promises made to the mujahideen during the 80s that went unfulfilled. The US response and attempts to prevent it were mired in gross incompetence at many levels, right up to the top.
Unfortunately we never got a proper investigation, because the initial one seems to have been designed to cover up for the huge incompetence.
While “truthers” are entitled to their views, I think it is important that I distance myself from such theories.
I am with you Aziz. The Bush administration was just incompetent. The war was supposed to be easily over in a few months.
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Have you ever noticed that none of the leadership blows themselves up? Just the lower level ones that have been brain-washed or even those with mental retardation are used. If you buy into the rhetoric that the leaders are willing to kill themselves, their families, and practically eliminate the Persian race, well I suppose there is no convincing you otherwise. Follow the money.
The latest on the Strait of Hormuz… things are getting a bit testy…
http://www.countercurrents.org/symonds301211.htm
http://real-agenda.com/2012/01/03/iran-threatens-action-if-us-carrier-returns/#comment-5856
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