While the missiles, planes and rockets fly over Gaza and Israel, both Hamas and the Israeli government have been engaged in a battle of social media.
Hamas:
And Israel:
It is a battle to shape the perceptions of the rest of the world.
The IDF appears so far to have the upper hand in terms of social media, having notched up 143,000 followers on Twitter, although Hamas’ al-Qassam Brigades are in swift pursuit having just climbed above 20,000 followers.
Yet to view this as a simple conflict between Hamas and Israel is too superficial. It ignores the history and the context. This is a much bigger and broader tapestry.
Israel‘s escalating air attacks on Gaza follow the depressingly familiar pattern that shapes this conflict. Overwhelming Israeli force slaughters innocent Palestinians, including children, which is preceded (and followed) by far more limited rocket attacks into Israel which kill a much smaller number, rocket attacks which are triggered by various forms of Israeli provocations — all of which, most crucially, takes place in the context of Israel’s 45-year-old brutal occupation of the Palestinians (and, despite a “withdrawal” of troops, that includes Gaza, over which Israel continues to exercise extensive dominion). The debates over these episodes then follow an equally familiar pattern, strictly adhering to a decades-old script that, by design at this point, goes nowhere.
And Michael Chussudovsky writes:
On November 14, Hamas military commander Ahmed Jabari was murdered in a Israeli missile attack. In a bitter irony, barely a few hours before the attack, Hamas received the draft proposal of a permanent truce agreement with Israel.
“Hours before Hamas strongman Ahmed Jabari was assassinated, he received the draft of a permanent truce agreement with Israel, which included mechanisms for maintaining the cease-fire in the case of a flare-up between Israel and the factions in the Gaza Strip.”(Haaretz, November 15, 2012)
F-16 fighter planes, Apache helicopters and unmanned drones were deployed. Israeli naval forces deployed along the Gaza shoreline were involved in extensive shelling of civilian targets.
While Israel continues to enforce extreme restrictions on the lives of Palestinians, it has been inevitable that organisations like Hamas who promise resistance against Israel and Zionism will thrive. And while Hamas has thrived, Israel has continued to impose sanctions and restrictions. Both sides have been locked into a cycle of brutal retaliation (and a particularly suicidal cycle for the Palestinians).
In the latest skirmishes, Hamas has inflicted three Israeli casualties in rocket strikes, the Israeli military has already assassinated two high level Hamas commanders, and carried out successful strikes on dozens of Gazan targets resulting in thirty deaths.
But Israel and Hamas share a deeply interwoven history. The WSJ notes:
“Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” says Avner Cohen, a Tunisian-born Jew who worked in Gaza for more than two decades. Responsible for religious affairs in the region until 1994, Mr. Cohen watched the Islamist movement take shape, muscle aside secular Palestinian rivals and then morph into what is today Hamas, a militant group that is sworn to Israel’s destruction.
Instead of trying to curb Gaza’s Islamists from the outset, says Mr. Cohen, Israel for years tolerated and, in some cases, encouraged them as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and its dominant faction, Yasser Arafat’s Fatah. Israel cooperated with a crippled, half-blind cleric named Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, even as he was laying the foundations for what would become Hamas.
And co-operation has continued between Hamas and Israel, even while they throw rockets at each other, and even while Hamas continues to receive funds and weapons from Israel’s major rivals, including Iran. Upon Ahmed Jabari’s killing, Haaretz noted:
Israel killed its subcontractor in Gaza.
The political outcome of the operation will become clear on January 22, but the strategic ramifications are more complex: Israel will have to find a new subcontractor to replace Ahmed Jabari as its border guard in the south.
Co-operation between Hamas and Israel should not be surprising. The two factions of hardliners — on one side Hamas, and on the other side Netanyahu’s coalition — validate each other’s existence. Without a state of perpetual enmity, the hardliners would find themselves marginalised. Nothing strengthens Hamas in Palestine like an Israeli rocket attack, and nothing strengthens Likud and Yisrael Beitenu in Israel like a Palestinian rocket attack.
However, Israel’s co-operation with Hamas may now be at an end. The surprise strike on Jabari may well be a sign that Hamas is to be cast aside and driven out of Gaza. This seems like the beginning of a new era in the middle east.
Now that the American election is out of the way, Netanyahu may be stepping toward engaging with Iran.
John Glaser, writing for AntiWar.com lays out one theory:
Israel, lest we forget, instigated this resumption of missile exchanges last week when two Palestinian civilians were shot and killed and Israeli tanks intruded into Gaza, prompting Gaza militants to respond by targeting Israeli soldiers, which then gave Israel an excuse to unleash successive airstrikes. And Israel had numerous chances to pacify the situation, considering Hamas publicly offered to establish a total ceasefire and Egypt appeared about to broker a truce between the two. Israel has intentionally inched towards escalation from the beginning. Are we to believe this isn’t strategic?
A ground invasion, and a reoccupation of Gaza by the IDF could be the first step toward engaging Iran. It would allow for Israel to dislodge Hamas, and create a buffer between Israel and Egypt, and the forces of the Muslim Brotherhood. The Morsi government in Egypt has pledged to support the Palestinians — but is this a bluff? Does Egypt have the capability or the desire to really oppose Israel? Does Iran really have the capability or the desire to oppose Israel in a more active way? Ultimately, Iran may have no choice, as Netanyahu is certain that they are on the nuclear threshold.
The world is in motion. Israel is playing its cards. The intent? To create facts on the ground that cement Israel’s position as the dominant power in the middle east for the next century.
Now, Iran’s move.
azizonomics 
Maybe this all cools back down after the elections in January.
One can hope.
I tend to believe that if that is the case, it will only cool temporarily, because Bibi’s belief that Iran is developing nukes will not go away.
Ben Ladin said, “We are over there because you are over here.”
There is an easy solution to this. Get the hell out of the business of others. If they insist on killing each other there’s nothing we can do about it except exacerbate the problem.
If it can be screwed up any further we are just the country to do it.
Israel has way more power than the Palestinians who occupy the Gaza strip. The United States and most of the rest of the Western world support Israel. They give billions of dollars in weaponry and cash. Canada is implicit in that too. It’s the radical side of both countries that hold the power right now. They have been at war there forever and all we can hope is that they will somehow find a way to live at peace with one another.
The Palestinian plight is at the back of the mind to most people. I guess rockets give them attention. It is their only method of attack, against the mighty and US backed IDF.
Even if Israel pulls back from the borders, so rockets can’t reach, how long before better rockets or drones from fanatical Hamas followers, cause terror?
Too complicated for me to think about. You are dealing with emotive people, and this will never end. The DNA is explosive, even if they were brought up in the calmest most rational households. Nature over nurture.
They will be bickering long after I am gone.
Aziz,
I don’t know how you got Iran into this Hamas picture. Hamas is another front of the Wahhabi-Saudi/Sunni Islamic Terrorist Network, the sworn enemy of Iran. Hezebollah is Iran, not Hamas. You may like to review the “On Liberty” tri-series at http://electanewcongress.com/the-liberty-trilogy-series/#.UKV3rmd9iCk, check out part III. “Liberty as Foreign Policy”, (a) Benghazi. This has a table of the member fronts of the Wahhabi from Mali in the west, to Indonesia in the east. All my best, Cheers mate.
I didn’t say Hamas was an Iranian operation. But it’s more complicated than that Hamas are Iran’s sworn enemy. There is some degree of co-operation (technological, economic, infrastructural) between the Sunni groups and Shi’ite groups that oppose Israel. The biggest enemies of Iran may be the Sunni elite in Saudi Arabia (to the extent that they have literally begged Israel to attack Iran), but my sense is that the non-elite Sunni are willing to work with Iran to fight Israel. Obviously Hezbollah is more closely tied to Iran. I wouldn’t bet against that front opening up again very soon….
Iran is trying to survive and they know the Wahhabi are breathing down their throat all the time. That’s what is going on in Syria, one of their few allies left in the Middle East. If Iran gets involved, their reason will be their defense as the Sunni world closes around them. But Iran teaming up with the Wahhabi world to take on Israel? No way. And unless Israel gets further involved in Syria, Iran will leave them alone
Take a chance and take a look at my Benghazi essay under “Liberty as Foreign Policy”. You’ll see that the only way to bring peace to the Middle East, is for the US to invade Saudi Arabia and cut off the money and direction coming out of Mecca and Medina. I don’t think you’ll agree, but its all not quite as complicated as you think. There is one destabilizing source in the Middle East, and that is Saudi Arabia. Even Bibi the Napoleonic paranoid couldn’t survive without the Wahhabi, as there would be no enemy left for anyone to fight. This of course unless the American Neo-Con creates another in order to justify their rule. But then, the entire course of “Liberty as Foreign Policy”, is to terminate America’s Neo-Con foreign policy of the last 24 years. For it is the U.S., through oil, and oil via the Neo-Con that supports Saudi Arabia and fights her battles with our mis-used and abused military.
The definition of revolution is a governments bankruptcy of its people, and that puts America in its first stage and on a slippery slope. America’s only out is through Liberty. Here is how it is done and its ramifications. http://electanewcongress.com/the-liberty-trilogy-series/#.UKV3rmd9iCk
I agree that Saudi Arabia is a massive source of destabilisation. However, I think a much better idea than invading Saudi Arabia (after all, the US is ALREADY occupying Saudi Arabia, and the KSA Royalty operates at the USA’s pleasure) is to just stop buying their oil, LEAVE the US bases in Saudi Arabia and go home, not overthrow their regime and impose a new US-backed regime, which is exactly what happened with Iran and precisely how we created so much blowback.
Not possible Aziz. In order to embark upon Liberty as Foreign Policy, America would have to correct two problems of our creation, or that we enabled. The first is Saudi Arabia (and open the ocean of oil fields in South East Saudi Arabia). The second is to answer the currency war China declared on January 1, 1994 and force a level playing field. Now’s the time, or we’ll be in another situation where we have to put boots on the ground. Saudi Arabia will go down easily, they have nothing there to fight back with. Take a look. I think the “On Liberty” tri-essay exposes and extends Liberty and its catalytic effect to an in-depth degree I have not read explored anywhere else.
“You’ll see that the only way to bring peace to the Middle East, is for the US to invade Saudi Arabia and cut off the money and direction coming out of Mecca and Medina.”
Just like the only thing you have to do to make a woman happy is to put the trash out on Tuesday night.
I am not sure that there is anything more complicated than Middle Eastern politics/economics/religion. These issues have been around for several millennium and don’t seem to be going away anytime soon.
Ok, let mee think – this has nothing to do with resources, just religion and human stupidity.
Alex
Are there any wars not based on religion today?
Hamas and the Palestinians should surrender and lay down their weapons. This would be a propaganda coup, for them and Israel would lose its excuse. Then they should multiply marry 4 wives and have plenty of Arab babies 10 or 15 per man. Israel will be overwhelmed. I suspect that they would invent terror so that things could return to the way they are now.
If hamas are sending so many rockets into Israel they are not very good (are they fire work rockets?), They do not appear to be causing much damage. Hamas is full of old dinosaurs they should step back, and stop sending their young people to their un-necessary deaths.
They can live side by side with each other…the Jews lived with the Arabs for hundreds of years until the modernist concept of zionism/nationalism and self determinism appeared.
Ok Aziz,
I generaly sympathetisize with you, so let mee think for a while – this conflict has nothing to do with environmental limits and resources, it is just purely ideological and religious and emotional escalation. Just as worsening China-Japan relationship have nothing to do with worsening economic situation, just as Katalonia indepentent movement has nothing to do with economic situation in Spain, etc… what is your take?
Alex
A very good question Aziz. In Israel, it is purely power in the Neo-Con sense and a weird extension off of U.S. policy. Bibi is a Neo-Con, and ultimately, Neoconism is not only the ultimate tyranny, but Satanic as well and opens a breach that requires a great deal more explanation. The Wahhabi are also Neoconistic, just a different breed; more like the Spanish Inquisition. The other tensions around the world you refer to, like the China-Japan relationship is more economically and politically driven. Everything in China goes back to economics as that tyrannical state tries to maintain the failed economic model of tyranny. I would encourage you to take a look at my On Liberty series, as it opens up an entirely new point of perspective in which to view the world. This is why I contend that the job of economists is to justify the unjustiable, they refuse to see all the options possible, but keep looking at the world through a singular and opaque looking glass. It requires one to emulate Plato, and stop looking at the reflection of the fire against the wall at the end of the cave we are sitting in, believing that the reflection is what the world is. And just as Plato encouraged, it is time to rise and walk to the opening of the cave and embrace a brave new world.
“…Neoconism is not only the ultimate tyranny, but Satanic as well and opens a breach that requires a great deal more explanation.”
Hardly. These are just a bunch of assholes with a little political power and lots of other people’s money. They will [soon] be put in the appropriate historical dustbin like all other tyrannical misfits.
“Everything in China goes back to economics as that tyrannical state tries to maintain the failed economic model of tyranny.”
What exactly are you trying to say here? All systems are tyrannies, no?
Liberty is a system, but it is not tyrannical. Tyranny is barbaric, and I say leave barbarism behind. Liberty is a system diametrically opposed to tyranny. Where one is, the other cannot exist and visa versa. As far as the Neo-Con being satanic, I would suggest you read The History of Neo-Cons, an attached essay to, III Liberty as Foreign Policy. As an aside, recall what the Prophet said about the land from where the Wahhabi and Saud’s originate from. They are, and from, the Horns of Satan. Try not to look at history in a single dimension, it has substance, let it tell you its story.
Liberty is an idea, first and foremost, and an ideal, to those who choose attach their wagons. As one man’s liberty is another man’s tyranny, like all thinking, the notion of what liberty is transient.
Although you might feel as if liberty and tyranny are opposites [duality], a matter for your consideration should be that they are truly one and the same [as are all things].
That is absurd. Liberty and tyranny are diametrically opposed to one another. What one is, the other is not. You have not given the On Liberty tri-essays even a cursory reading. If you had, it would be impossible for you to say this based upon mathematic logic. You are shooting from the hip.
That is absurd. Liberty and tyranny are diametrically opposed to one another. What one is, the other is not. You have not given the On Liberty tri-essays even a cursory reading. If you had, it would be impossible for you to say this based upon mathematic logic. You are shooting from the hip.
Mathematical logic? Your math doesn’t work for me [or anybody else, for that matter]. Just the same, as are all intellectual ideas, liberty and tyranny are relative concepts, so if you choose to place them in opposition, then it is only where you place yourself that determines their meaning.
Otoh, if you look at the ideas of tyranny or liberty, in and of themselves, you will see that they are empty of meaning, as are all things.
Apparently, mathematical logic does not exist in your world either, as mine is a simple mathematical assignment of value. One defines the other by which it is not. This is basic Logic 101 and perfectly valid. It seems you assign undefinable values to both, but this leaves you lost in a sargasso sea, lost and rudderless, without compass. Your handle is well chosen. As I said, best of luck to you, I think you are going to need it.
Alexander —
Well, the Palestinians have an artificial resource crisis due to the Gaza blockade and the sanctions. No such thing for Israel. I think the artificial scarcity is the big reason (above and beyond religion) that keeps Palestinians firing rockets at Gaza.
It seems to me that what we are observing in and around Palestine is a power struggle between non-Arab states to control and exploit the Arab parts of the Middle East and its oil. I am thinking of Israel, Turkey, and Iran. (There was a time when Great Britain played this role, but then they lost their marbles and the U.S. took their role and botched the job.) Of course there are other interested powers, especially the United States, Germany, Russia, India, and China, who have various complicated relationships with the three primary contestants. Hamas and the Palestinians in general are at most a pimple on Israel’s ass, but as many have pointed out, they are also an excuse for various aggressive actions on Israel’s part and are doubtless found to be convenient by Israel’s ruling class; it’s no surprise to find out they are still being paid off. None of the rulers of the countries involved give a rat’s ass about the actual welfare of the Palestinians, so this is not really an issue except for some of us Western hippie-communist types. I don’t know what the Palestinians can do about it. The way they could most inconvenience Israel would be to eschew violence except in immediate self-defence, embrace a one-state solution, and demand full civil rights within that state. In short, step out of the game.
Aziz, please, read the On Liberty tri-series. What is going on is the result of a 100 year commitment by Ibn Saud to restore the Ottoman Empire under Saudi governmental rule, and Wahhabi religious rule. Note that he started before the end of the Ottoman Empire. Look at everything within this context, because the only thing that has changed, is that Rockefeller Oil entered the scene in the 1930’s and combined with the Saud Kingdom. You’re shooting from the hip Aziz, because your history is very weak. You are welcome also to nar2012.com, where you can peruse the first 3 chapters of “New American Revolution” through Amazon for free. It won’t get you to where you need to be, but it will give you a good start. Also, take a look at the table of contents, it should help.
billfawell, can you give us a brief synopsis of your main thesis?
I think you can get the idea before you’re done with the first page of the series I. On Liberty… I’m sure you can, and I’m not sure I can do it better than that. So I would encourage you to take a look there…http://electanewcongress.com/the-liberty-trilogy-series/#.UKeujGd9iCk. Let me know what you think, poke some holes in it, see if it bleeds.
Bill, when someone literally tells me that the USA needs to invade Saudi Arabia, and then tells me my history is very weak, I get a great sense of irony.
The USA is already occupying Saudi Arabia. The Saudi government operates at our pleasure and with our consent. The Wahhabists have been an instrument of American foreign policy again and again. Today in Libya and Syria, but historically in Afghanistan (e.g. the Taliban and Mujahideen fighting the Soviets), and throughout the middle east, Pakistan, etc.
The weakest aspect of your foreign policy, though, is your understanding of China and your claim that they are a currency manipulator. The biggest currency manipulator has always been the USA. That’s the whole point of the dollar as a global reserve currency. It isn’t the dollar because of inherent value, it’s the dollar because of American currency manipulation, petrodollar warfare, and American aircraft carriers.
Aziz, I understand your view, but when American foreign policy changes to Liberty, Saudi Arabia will need to be liberated before we leave. And while America is almost the greatest manipulator of currencies, at least the dollar floats in the Oil/Dollar world, whereas China does not. That, and our military makes China vulnerable to our leveling the playing field. We are never going to agree until we start talking about the same world. I think you’ve gotten hung up in the social, moral, and economic model inherent to tyranny and suppose there is no other. It doesn’t work, this is why the job of the economist is to justify the unjustifiable.
I operate in the social, moral, and economic model inherent to Liberty, and it is a vastly different world than yours. I’ve asked you to take a look at the world of Liberty in the On Liberty tri-essays, but I don’t think you’ve gone there…yet. My objective is to get 162,000,000 registered American voters to look at Liberty also, that’s why I’ve gone to the effort to strip it to its bare necessity and core, so that people can understand it better. I hope to get them to discard this world of tyranny and embrace Liberty, and I think people are getting to the point where they are open to Liberty, if for no other reason, but that they are out of choices and there is no where else to go. Once Liberty has taken root in America, Liberty will become American foreign policy, and the rest of the people in the world will find that they are ready for Liberty also.
Their governments might not be, but the people will be.
Remember Plato’s cave, abandon the reflection of light on the wall, rise and go to the end of the tunnel and enter a brave new world. You can’t imagine how different a world based in Liberty will be, but take a look. I tried to keep it short and simple so people could wrap their hearts and minds around it
I’ve read your essays.
When it comes to liberty, just leaving the middle east is far preferable to invading Saudi Arabia. We need to get out of the old world mindset of intervening in and controlling the affairs of other nations. The liberty-oriented approach demands that we just leave. Just leave. Go home. Stop wasting capital and labour and resources trying to mould the rest of the world. You want liberty? Just leave the middle east.
Fight it now, or fight it later. It is too tempting now when to return later will not be nearly as easily done. It’s also the only opportunity I think you’ll get to break the oil cartel’s grip on the world. I don’t think any one has any concept of the amount of oil still untouched in Saudi Arabia, and it would pay for a lot of the sins that they have committed these last 60 to 70 years.
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Aziz,
The Middle East is not complicated at all, and you are right in saying it has been going on for a long time. Actually, about 1300 years. But it is the same problem then as now. The Sunni, and especially the Wahhabi/Saud Arab see the leadership of Islam as to be held by the man who can take it, that this is the sanction of Allah. They are dogmatic, to the degree of the Spanish Inquisition. If you are not with us, you are against us, and an unbeliever, so covert or die. On the other hand, there are those Shiite who believe that the leader must be from within the blood line of the Prophet Mohammad. The Shia are tolerant of not only other Islamic sects, but other religions, provided they do not interfere with Islamic rites, and they worship the same God of Islam, Allah, the God of Abraham. This is why Jews and Christians are accepted more in Shia areas, but live on a razors edge amongst most Sunni. This is why Iran, Syria, and soon Lebanon are under the gun. It’s why Iraq was invaded. Yes, America has been in the Middle Eastern war on the wrong side, in a war where there is no right side. I just don’t think America can exit the situation we’ve created without doing a little house cleaning on the way out the door.
bill, although I have not read your essay as of yet, consider the following. The arrangement that seem to result in the best outcome for the most people is economic freedom, which exist in an inverse relationship with regulation [systems].
The United States has enormous problems because it embraced systems as its rasion d’etre.
The love of Liberty is the love of Law. The law IS tyranny.
Again, please go back and read the On Liberty tri-essays. Liberty is not only foreign to you, it is a foreign language to most. Once people can understand the difference, we will see change. And events are going to force people to want to look, to understand, and to change the world around them, and Liberty will be the best and only way.
From you first essay:
“The only way to stop this spiral and restore America, is to remove the extra-legal and unconstitutional re-assignment of the powers over the constitutional mechanisms of our Constitution, and place them all back to the Congress and the State legislatures, where they belong. Only thus, can these powers be performed fully within the wholesome introduction, debate, compromise, and vote exclusively within the public forum; and so generates the transparency the people require in order to provide the true “Consent of the Governed”, by which the people then rule over their government.
This is the definition of Liberty. Without these restraints and the usurping agencies intact, the government rules the people and so defines tyranny, as America continues to sink deeper into the fiscal abyss.”
In other words, instead of being hen-pecked 24/7, you are requesting that the little lady allow you to go out bowling with the guys on Thursday nights?
Liberty is not something you can define, but instead, something you live. It can take all kinds of forms, but its essence is the ability to take care of oneself and ones family with minimal interference [economic freedom].
I believe you are simply advocating [as do most libertarians] a return to a simpler time, when things “worked better.” This is not going to happen. What is going to happen is the the manifestation of liberty will cycle around once again when conditions permit. This may be in ten years, or one hundred and ten years, but it will happen.
Lusting after the way it used to be, bowing down to former heroes, or reproducing words that have little meaning today, might make for a warm, fuzzy feeling, but it does not align one with the truth of the present world.
The present structure of this country is fatally flawed. This happens to all systems, by definition. Things take care of themselves despite our pleas to the gods, to our significant others, or even those in the blog-sphere.
Having said all of that, I did enjoy your piece and agree that if you love tyranny, your prescription will create a literal orgy of laws, regulations, stipulations, taxes, fees, orders, and all the wonderful things that go with living in a well-ordered, productive, happy society.
No, you’ve missed the point entirely. By restoring the constitutional powers of Congress to Congress, you take away the power that cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men, who have usurped those powers and conduct their operation behind closed doors for the profit of they and their faction. This is the customary weapon by which free governments are destroyed.
It is a mechanical policy procedure that denies power to any individual, group, or faction. It’s not that difficult to understand. It is not so much a simpler age, but a simple procedure that America is perfectly capable of performing if the people exert the pressure upon Congress to act and restore their constitutional powers (Article I sec. 8&9).
I do not know why you make it so difficult by making statements that it is a bygone era that cannot be returned to, or that it is like a hen-pecked husband who wants to go bowling.
Liberty is a tangible, concrete, and valid social, moral, and economic operating platform. If you refuse to see it, I think you will become a growing minority in the future. All my best to you, I think you are going to need it.
I understand what you are talking about. The founding fathers were Deists and therefore 300 years ahead of their time. They did what they did and trusted the people to keep what they created. As a result you see what you do today.
Luckily with the internet, people like you and me and others can connect. The formation of a new Nation State is the only solution, and then opening of the borders to people with similar ideals from all around the world, is the only way your ideas will work.
keep me informed of your project. cvpages.buddy at gmail dot com
“All my best to you, I think you are going to need it.”
Bill, you aptly demonstrate the poverty of thinking. Imagine that you believe you might know me well enough to make such a statement.
You are attached to the idea of liberty and refuse to realize its essence. When the conditions arise, only then will liberty will arise, but it will not be in a form you will recognize.
Believe it or not, most people understand what liberty is, and do not need others to point out the obvious.
The events are here and will continue to come and people will sign on. I harbor no illusions, only the truth. I’m just where everyone will have to come. You think people understand Liberty, but if they understand it as well as you have shown your knowledge of the subject to be, they know little. I may not know you that well, but you have shown yourself well enough in your comments on Liberty, that you yourself have removed any question of doubt. You stand on loose definitions, which is no definition at all. My observations simply stand by your comments.
You don’t “understand” liberty, you live it.
You are correct. Shia with their worship of martyrs/saints shrines, are closer to Christianity/Catholicism, than say Sunni Islam to Christians.
From the perspective of Sunni, Shia are the unbelievers too.
My mate today had a point. What id they are right and we are wrong. Western values are in decay, can’t think how his little girl will grow up around juvenile boys in 10 years.
How would the world look if it was Sunni Islam with high technology and science? Is it the same obscure world as a Nazi dominated world view. Do we attack the Sunni as we attacked Germany?
Buddy, that was not my point. What I said was that in the era of the Spanish Inquisition, Catholicism was the equivalent Wahhabi-Sunni thinking, and that the Shia were the rest of Christiandom. Islam is not superior to Chrisitanity, nor visa versa. The decay in the West can be attributed to the decline of religion not experienced in Islam…yet. But I think that decay is much more attributable to the social, moral, and economic modeling that people are forced to live in, in the tyrannical state. Not only does it create destitution, but its false economy creates illusions that are manifest in other subjects. People no longer see the value of honor, charity, and God. They worship things like the television, a sports team, Lady Gagg’a, et al.
If anything, the western world has created the greatest impact of illusion in Saudi Arabia with its Faustian pact of oil wealth. The Saud’s support slavery, prostitution, excessive consumption, diabetes, homo-sexual rape; while the wealth created by the West through the moral decay in Riyadh finances the warped virtual Spanish Inquisition of the Wahhabi international terrorist machine that sees anyone not worshiping their version of Islam and unbeliever, subject to either conversion or death.
They both oppress the Shia, an oppression that keeps Eastern Saudi Arabia under essential Marshall Law, Iran armed to the teeth, Syria under war, and Libya, Egypt, and most of the rest of the Middle East mere puppets to there oppression.
And now they are beginning to turn their wrath upon Israel all the while the Mass Media and our government are still trying to blame it on Iran. Certainly Saudi Arabia is the problem, but they are the problem because America is its water boy, its enabler, its muscle ladened lacky.
See through the illusion. See Liberty for what it really is. Liberty is not the illusion our government and its society would have you believe. It is of substance, definable, and therefore tangible, and it is the greatest threat to the rule of oligarchs.
Liberty will destroy the illusion they have created, and applied as I have suggested, cause Peace to break out… everywhere.
Serfs Up America!
Agreed. I was never comfortable with the British giving the house of Saud, so much power.
Take it away.
Nothing like an armed conflict before an election. Better the chance to be reelected.
Litmus test result: Author of the article is an anti-semite and either ignorant or a liar. Bty, there is no Israeli occupation of Gaza. Sadly for the Gazaians, there is a Hamas occupation of Gaza
When did I say there was an Israeli occupation of Gaza? I never said anything about an Israeli occupation.
I said it is like a prison camp, under siege, which it is, and that is the main reason why extremist groups like Hamas are thriving.
Also, I am 1/4 Jewish, and I accept Israel’s right to exist. On the other hand, being enemies with your neighbours and keeping them under siege is very dangerous. Palestinians and the wider Arab world will not stop hating Israel and supporting Hamas until the Palestinians’ conditions improve, and while that is the case Israel is in great danger.
Muslims in Gaza and Judea-Samaria, like all muslims, do have a death wish…it is to be treated like muslim invaders treated the Greeks of Anatolia(Turkey) or the Armenians…or the Assyrians of today’s Iraq, or the Zoroastrians of Persia…or the Hindus of India-Pakistan-Bangladesh, or the Buddhists and Christians of Indonesia, or the Copts(real Egyptians) of Egypt, or the Kabyles-Tuaregs-Tamazigh of North Africa, or the French of Algeria, or the millions of Europeans dragged in slavery by the Barbary pirates, or the hundreds of millions of black Africans sold in slavery by Arab slavers or the many millions of Jews very recently raped, tortured, murdered or expelled all over the muslim Umma…they may be getting the Armageddon they are asking for, let’s pray their death wish get fulfilled!(although I doubt anything will happen!)
Collective punishment is stupid and evil and counterproductive.
Not sure you have your history correct. Show me a timeline of when the Palestinians had a country – the Palestinians who came from other countries as outcasts and settled in the barren desert. Who were the first settlers in what is now called Israel? Spell it out Aziz. And, then, tell the rest of the story. How many rockets were fired from Gaza into Israel from January, 2012, until October, 2012? And how many from Israel into Gaza during the same time period? And which side lobbed their rockets toward non-military targets? If you are gonna talk, talk the truth. You are not assessing, you are making propaganda.
Arabs lived in the Holy Land for many generations prior to the resettlement by Jews. In 1948, 68% of Palestinians were Arabs, and 32% were Jews. In 1914 there were 94,000 Jews, 525,000 Muslims and 70,000 Christians. For over 500 years before that Muslims had been a majority in Jerusalem, Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, and all the cities of the Holy Land.
I don’t have any problem with Jews living in Israel. I don’t deny the connection between Jews and Israel. I support the Jewish state. I am 1/4 Jewish. But I think that the refugees including the people of Gaza who were driven out in 1948 and are now being forced to live under siege need some kind of compensation. That should be the basis of a long-term peace treaty — Palestinians recognise the Jewish state, and agree to halt all attacks in exchange for compensation for losing the country of their ancestors and help rebuilding a new state in some form of the 1967 borders. Israel should not necessarily have to pay too much. The countries that committed the holocaust should pay their share.
It’s called apartheid, and Israel is an Apartheid State. So is the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. They are both at the center of what is, has, and continues to go wrong in the Middle East. The Kingdom feeds the fire that Bibi reacts to, and America bewilderingly supports them both. The Kingdom needs to be overthrown, and Bibi removed. Then Peace would break out all over the place. But for this to happen, Liberty must first take hold in America. Any takers? http://www.electanewcongress.com
Please continue your reply, Aziz, and address “And how many from Israel into Gaza during the same time period? And which side lobbed their rockets toward non-military targets?”
Everyone knows Hamas has been lobbing low-grade rocketry indiscriminately into Israel. I have friends on Facebook who share Qassam Count updates, so I was very, very much aware of this issue.
But why did Israel assassinate Jabari 15 minutes after he had received a ceasefire proposal? Why doesn’t Israel understand that the best way to alienate Hamas is by lifting the siege and offering food and construction aid, and that by maintaining the siege, and retaliating, they just drive more Palestinians toward Hamas?
Tracy, Can you check out the reply to this site and how people sign up and chat about things. Can we do this also, it is in WordPress. Bill
Ming, that is the first intelligent thing I’ve seen you print, and it is very accurate. I would like to see you try and maintain that thread of truth in all your contributions. Maintain this core in your communications and I think it will work very well for you. Discipline pays, shooting from the hip serves you not. Sometimes the less said, the greater the impact.
Since the Jews were tortured last century, their hands are feverishly shaking, their eyes want to see blood, their traumatic mind yearns for revenge, they desparately need anti-semitism. They found an ideal victim, the Palestinians. These people are imprisoned like the Jews in the Konzentrationslagern. Jetzt haben wir so viel Macht wie Hitler. The weird Jews have to kill them, they have to fight and commit genocide, it’s the nourisment of the traumatized victim. From time to time the Jews come out of their holes to kill. To give these poor, cripple-minded Jews a state of their own, has been the biggest mistake in history. As a people, they should have had psychiatric help for at least a centurey. Let’s hope the Iranians will force these damned Jews back into their holes…
Jerke (Jerk) – Your name is very accurate!
Hello,
Did you read Tariq Alhomayed article in Asharq Alawsat, actually calling the world to pay their attention BACK towards Syria and the attrocities carried out by Asad towards his own people. Tariq, who for sure is not a zionist, thinks that the rocket attacks from Gaza to Israel for weeks before Israel retaliated, were a calculated provocation of Iran and Syria to distract the world attention from Syrian Asad. Asad kills EVERY day more civilians than all the casualties caused by Israeli airstrikes. Asad already killed 40,000 of his own people and nothing is done by the so called civilized world. No resolution by the UN, since Russia blocks it (They have their naval basis in Latakiya, Syria), however yesterday after 7 days of fighting Russia mobilizes the UN to condemn Israel.
Fair point. Oh BTW what about Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Congo. The whole world is ablaze.
The global Arms business must be booming.
Meanwhile billions of people are preoccupied in their daily lives, and their main concern is what is on the TV.
Think about all the people with agendas, behind the Politicians and their foreign policy.
Perhaps the Palestinians need to seek refugee status, and start new lives. Elsewhere. Politicians are not supporting them, because the Israeli lobby is against it. I don’t know where in the Koran it says they must occupy Palestine. The Jews have Biblical ties. Leave the lands for the Jews. They need a homeland.
The most disastrous thing the Palestinians could do to the Israelis is muster a flotilla of ships and head for Europe. The refugee crisis would spark a political row. It will be pre WW2 all over again.
Israel and the Palestinians have been fighting since the time of David and Goliath. I want to know if there is a way that this Mid East situation will ever settle. I wish it would. Just looking at the history for all the years of involvement, isn’t there some means that somebody has the words to create peace or some semblance of peace?? Just watching and reading about this situation makes my heart bleed.
I can’t believe I’m reading this TRASH! Before Jabari got his piece of paper he was in charge of lobbing 200 missles in 3 days time which murdered 3 people indiscrimanently. He would not have stopped, just as he was against the freeing of Gilad Shalit. He was a Nazi, and u r his sympathizer for trying to whitewash Hamas’s actions as a reaction to an non-existent “occupation” where Israel has not been for 5 years. During that time almost EVERY DAY missles have been shot INDISCRAMENTLY at men, women and children. What would any sane person/country do?! I can assure you, America would have long nuked any country regardless of any loss of human life of the enemy. Israel should do the same.
Go and live in Gaza for a year, then you might understand what the Palestinian people go through, and how it has systematically driven their society haywire.
Would you go live there now for a year? If so, it would explain alot. Maybe a better suggestion would be to your Palestian friends to vote and elect a different set of people to run their enclave.
Right now, the USA holds the cards with the most powerful military in the world. It was not the USA who attacked the USA in 2001. Chasing down terrorists who attack the USA interests is going to happen whether you or anybody else likes it or not. Gee, I guess Israel is doing the same thing, aren’t they?
If you are a soldier and you hide among civilians, you put them at risk. If you care about them, don’t hide among them. They are going to get injured or killed when the bullet comes for you!
Would you raise your children to be suicide bombers? blah blah….need I go on?
Hey, I agree with you. The only pathway forward for the Palestinians is nonviolence. Eventually, I think they will have to learn this lesson.
Yes it happens, but it has costs. The USA is now suffering from massive debt and imperial overstretch since Iraq and Afghanistan. There are problems for Israel. Erdogan just called Israel a “terrorist state” engaging in “terrorism”! With people around the world, the only countries less popular than Israel are North Korea and Iran. Israel is becoming more and more isolated. As I’ve said multiple times, the way to defeat a vicious enemy like Hamas is to undermine them with economic and civilian aid, to make them irrelevant by helping the Palestinians rebuild Gaza. Bombing Gaza gives Hamas a propaganda victory, and isolates Israel. That is the truth.
I support the right of Jews to live in Israel. But I foresee a lot of problems for Israel’s future if they cannot mend the problems with their neighbours.
Three cheers for you, Bill. Correct in every way!
I guess killing Osama, set a precedent for extra-judicial killings, so Israel had every right to target Jabiri. Both were “Master Minds” of violence.
And fair point, the Palestinians voted for leaders who supported violence, not Peace. Was it a death wish, knowing Israel’s response? Maybe.
I think the best policy is to target the leaders of violence, then only peaceful leaders will step forward. Israel can win the propaganda war by paying spies/traitors to target the leaders. That way innocents are not hit by stray bombs.
If the Ottomans still controlled Palestine, would we have Jews and Muslims, Christians, Zoroastrians, Copts living in peace and harmony.
I am sure the British have renegged on other deals in the past and will do it in the future
http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/sharif_hussein.html
Tell me the British didn’t start this hornets nest!
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_riots_1920-21.ph
Those pesky Communists
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_riots
At least the ottomans knew how to handle highly strung people
“The Ottoman Turks usually deployed thousands of soldiers and even artillery to keep order in the narrow streets of Jerusalem during the Nabi Musa procession”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Palestine_riots
Divide and conquer!
You are different to me, we are not regional citizens we are A B C – Z
“Don’t trust F, he betrayed P.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_determination
A one world currency and Government, followed up by strong military and Police control, is essential for world peace.
The very problems in the world are caused by men. It is unfortunate that we women can’t do without them.
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